The Biggest Secret: An interview with David Icke
Source: Kenneth Burke, Leading Edge Newspaper
29th April 2000
ABOUT THE AUTHOR: In The Biggest Secret, David Icke reveals in documented,
sourced detail how the same interconnecting bloodlines have controlled
the planet for thousands of years. How they created all the major religions
and suppressed the spiritual and esoteric knowledge that will set humanity
free from its mental and emotional prisons. It includes an exposť of
the true origins of Christianity and the other major religions and documents
the suppressed science which explains why the world is facing a time
of incredible change and transformation. As a kid, says Icke, I always
wondered how a few islands which you can hardly see on the globe could
have an Empire that spanned the world. Now the reason is obvious. It
was not the Great British Empire at all. It was the empire of the Babylonian
Brotherhood. The Leading Edge Newspaper.
Kenneth Burke: David, I realize that creating a thumbnail sketch of
connecting the dots that are in your new book, "The Biggest Secret,"
is difficult, but could you connect a few dots for our readers, so they'll
at least understand the basic premise of your work?
David Icke: Yes, I can, actually. "The Biggest Secret" is 550 pages
with 60 illustrations and over 40 pictures. I really pushed the boat
out with it. It's in great detail, and the material is tremendously
sourced as much as possible. I can actually summarize the story very
simply. What my research and my unbelievably synchronistic life in terms
of the research have shown me, explained in great detail in the book
is that, if you go far enough back, you pick up not just one extraterrestrial
race, but extraterrestrial races, which interbred with humanity. There
is one particular group, within an extraterrestrial race, which operates
within the physical world (certainly from within the Earth), and its
primary place of focus is the lower fourth dimension, which people call
the astral level. This is the reptilian race. I suggest strongly in
the book that, those we call the Ananaki (in the Sumerian Tablets) are
actually a reptilian race. I am not alone in this. Dr. David Arthur
Horne has written a book, "Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins", and
has made the same connections that I have.
Book Jacket: The Biggest Secret
I make these connections, not just from intuition, but from a tremendous
amount of ancient and modern evidence that shows that this reptilian
connection travels right through these thousands of years to the present
day. Some of these references to serpents and dragons are obviously
symbolic, not the least, the Kundalini energy and other things, but
when you look at the evidence, there is a tremendous number of literal
references to serpent people - serpent gods. When you do the research,
again, into the area where this seems to have happened in the Caucasus
Mountains, in what we now call Turkey, Iran and Iraq, which we called
Sumer and Babylon, and into the plains of Egypt (the area particularly
around the Caucasus Mountains seems to be the place where these bloodlines
came out). This interbreeding occurred between the human race and this
reptilian group within a race. Now, I don't see the reptilian genetic
stream as negative in itself - quite the opposite - it's just this particular
group within it.
The Sumerian Tablets and many other accounts, all over the world, talk
about the fact that these hybrids became the demigods, the middle men
and women between the gods and humanity. If you look at some of the
history of Iran, the earliest kings were called the serpent kings, and
they became kings as a result of their genetic structure and their family
bloodlines. This is where the Divine right of kings comes from. Where
we lost the plot is that it didn't refer to god - if you like, everything
that exists - it referred to the GODS.
Now, around 2200 B.C., something emerged in Egypt, called the Royal
Court of the Dragon. That is still going strong, today, 4000 years later,
and it's based in England, which is, for me, the epicenter of global
control - the epicenter of the network that controls the world - not
Tony Blair's government (although he is a big front-man for them) -
but the epicenter of control is in the area, which we call the city
of London - the financial district and the other interlocking areas.
As you probably know, London is the great sprawl of London and, within
it, is an area, which is called the City of London. That's the financial
district, basically, where the Bank of England is. Basically, the control
of the world financial markets is there.
So, when you do the genealogy, and I've done quite a bit already, as
well as the history, you can follow this basically Aryan race of people,
who came originally to Britain by ship under the name of the Phoenicians,
who are a very significant part of history, which conventional history
pushes to the sidelines. I show in the book that the Phoenician culture
became the British culture. They worshipped two deities: one was called
Barat, the male, and the other was called Barati, the female. They became
Britain and Britainnia, and I've pictured in the book the Phoenician
depiction of Barati and the British depiction of Britainnia, and what
was said about them, and they are staggeringly the same. These people
also flowed overland, changing their names from time to time. They became
the white peoples of Europe. Within this genetic structure were these
reptilian/human hybrids. The hybrids that were the rulers of the ancient
Near and Middle East became the European aristocracy and the royal families
of Europe. Now, there is only one royal family - just under different
names. The Windsors are certainly one of these lines.
The key expansion point, for these bloodlines to literally take over
the planet, came after 1689, when one of these bloodlines, called William
of Orange (to whom every surviving royal family in Europe is related)
was put on the throne of England, coming from Holland. From 1689, these
bloodlines, which have become known as the Illuminati, made their epicenter
of their operational level in the City of London. It was in 1694 that
William of Orange signed the charter that created the Bank of England,
and the whole central banking system started to move with this interlocking
leadership. This is why you have a central bank in virtually every country,
because they have an interlocking leadership and run the economies of
their countries and hold the purse strings of the government.
The real thing that emerged in the years following this centering of
the operation in London was, of course, the Great British Empire. I
now understand that it wasn't the Great British Empire, at all. It was
the empire of these bloodlines that had placed themselves in Britain,
which is quite another thing. Therefore, these bloodlines, operating
covertly, overwhelmingly in the white race, but certainly not only,
became the people who took the banking business, media, and political
power in all these different countries of the British Empire. Although
we appear to see that the British Empire has contracted, and people
have got their independence, we can very clearly see that the prisons
with the bars (the overt control of these countries by Britain) have
been replaced with prisons without bars, which are the secret society
network and the bloodlines still operating covertly in those countries
and running the show. The way it works, incidentally, is that you have
the epicenter in London.
Then, in each of these countries, you have what I call the bloodline
branch managers, who operate that country on behalf of the centrally
coordinated agenda. So, when the agenda is being orchestrated to bring
something about on a global level, for example microchipping, then the
bloodline branch managers in that country manipulate and organize in
their particular sphere of influence, like the Rockefellers in America
and the Eastern establishment families, like the Oppenheimers in South
Africa. These branch managers orchestrate their family and country in
line with the global agenda coming out of Europe (particularly London
but Paris, to some extent), as well. It's like a spider's web or a transnational
corporation, with branches in every country.
A wonderful example of that is in South Africa. I was there, about this
time last year, and did a lot of research and talking. Before Mandela
became president, there was overt control of South Africa by a white-minority
apartheid regime, but there was tremendous opposition around the world
to apartheid. People had banners in the air and protests and all that.
At that time, the Oppenheimer family controlled 80% of the stock in
the South African stock market and the rest by implication. They owned
the media through various front men, and they owned the diamond and
gold mines, on which the country's economy depends. They had to switch
to so-called democracy, and Mandela was put into the presidency. Of
course, the banners then went down, and people walked away, saying,
well, South Africa is sorted. The world's getting freer.
After Mandela became president, to this day, the Oppenheimer family
now only owns 80% of the stock on the stock market and the rest by implication.
They only own the gold and diamond mines on which the economy depends,
and they only own the media through various front men, not the least,
an Irishman, called Tony O'Reilly. The difference is, no one is screaming
human rights or lack of freedom, any more, because there is a black
man in the presidency. I have been around South Africa and, if anything,
there are more shanty towns, now - more Soweto-type places in South
Africa than ever before. Nothing has changed for the people, except
on the surface. In terms of choice, in terms of the quality of their
lives, nothing has changed. The same people are running the country,
but they are running it unchallenged, now, because of the prison bars
replaced by prisons with no bars.
Let me interject that these reptilian bloodlines overwhelmingly come
out of Europe from France and Britain. Alsace- Lorraine is a particularly
important area for them. So, this is how it works: When you do the genealogy
of the American presidents, it's stunning. This information comes from
Burke's Peerage, which is the Bible of aristocratic genealogy, based
in London. Every presidential election in America, since and including
George Washington in 1789 to Bill Clinton, has been won by the candidate
with the most British and French royal genes. Of the 42 presidents to
Clinton, 33 have been related to two people: Alfred the Great, King
of England, and Charlemagne, the most famous monarch of France. So it
goes on: 19 of them are related to England's Edward III, who has 2000
blood connections to Prince Charles. The same goes with the banking
families in America. George Bush and Barbara Bush are from the same
bloodline - the Pierce bloodline, which changed its name from Percy,
when it crossed the Atlantic. Percy is one of the aristocratic families
of Britain, to this day. They were involved in the Gunpowder Plot to
blow up Parliament at the time of Guy Fawkes and all that. So, George
Bush is related to Charlemagne and Alfred the Great. He is related to
Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
You know, these different bloodlines have taken different names, but
they follow the genealogy like crazy. Because they go under different
names, people obviously don't see the pattern. If Clinton and the secretary
of state were Rockefellers and the main newsreader on NBC was a Rockefeller,
then, people would say, excuse me, what's going on here. So, they have
different names. That's irrelevant. It's the bloodline that matters.
The Bush family is one example, because, over these last three generations,
or so, it has carried the same name, and you can actually see the way
The idea that anyone can become president of the United States is utter
bunkum, and that is a very important statement. That idea is actually
one of the foundations of American's belief that they live in a free
country. Well, I can tell you that it is absolutely untrue. If you go
back two generations, according to the research, you find Prescot Bush,
George Bush's father, was involved in various political maneuvers and
he was a member of the Skull and Crossbones Society at Yale University.
In the next generation, you have George, who was prepared from birth
and brought up to hold positions of power, and he went on to become
head of the CIA, the Vice President, and, in fact, President for three
terms (two of them officially Reagan's). He was head of the Republican
Party at the time of the Watergate hearings. He was a U.N. Ambassador
and an unofficial ambassador to China. All these were key positions.
Now, we are seeing the next generation of the Bush family - the Bush
bloodline - with Jeb Bush the Governor of Florida and George W. Bush
now being feted as the next President of the United States. So, you
can see it over three generations, with the Bushes, but, in these other
bloodlines, you can't see it because they have different names.
According to Burke's Peerage, even according to the official genealogy,
Bill Clinton is genetically related to the House of Windsor, the present
royal family in Britain; to every Scottish monarch; to King Henry III
of England; and to Robert I of France. I am seeing more and more compelling
research information that Clinton is actually a Rockefeller, one generation
back, which would explain a tremendous amount about why this so-called
kid off the street of Arkansas was given a Rhodes scholarship to Oxford
University, which only goes to hand-picked people. He was put under
the tutelage of Carol Quigley, one of the insiders at Georgetown University,
who wrote massive tomes about the manipulation of this group in the
20th century, "Tragedy and Hope" and "The Anglo-American Establishment,"
At a very early age, Clinton became governor of what everyone seemed
to accept as the Rockefeller State of Arkansas. Then, of course, he
became the President of the United States. These people are brought
through because of their bloodlines, and the bloodlines relate to the
fact that it has a genetic and, therefore, a vibrational compatibility
with these fourth-dimensional reptilian beings, who can operate through
these physical bloodlines, much like someone donning a space suit. They
can work into the third dimension through these particular lines.
World Org Chart
Kenneth Burke: Let me ask this, so, I can understand how it works.
Let's say, the core group (in your understanding) is based in the City
of London in England.
David Icke: That is the operational level. You know, you have an operational
level, like a headquarters, where everything is organized and coordinated,
but that is not necessarily the epicenter of power. That could well
be somewhere else on the planet. I get under the ground in Tibet, every
time I think about it. I think that these endless legends of underground
communities, Agartha, and all this stuff, have a basis in fact. But,
what I'm talking about is that the center of the web, where things are
coordinated, is definitely London, and Paris, to an extent, as well.
Kenneth Burke: In the same way that metaphysically oriented people believe
we have spirit guides , are these reptilian entities impacting these
people, who have physical bodies, without their knowledge, or are they
shapeshifters, who are folding time? What does your research show?
David Icke: That's a great question, and there are two levels to it.
One is those I call the full-bloods. I talk about them in the book.
They include the House of Windsor (the Royal Family of Britain), George
Bush, and those sort of people. While we have our focus in the third
dimension, they actually have their focus in the fourth dimension. They
can move between the two and can look into this dimension in the fourth.
These are what I call the full-bloods. Now, compared with the population
of the world, there aren't many of them. They are shapeshifters.
Then there are the lower genetic lines, but they are still very reptilian
in their content. I call them the hybrids. These people, overwhelmingly,
do not know who they are, but those orchestrating things do know, because
they follow the bloodlines and genetics, with a stunning obsession.
What they are looking for in the hybrids is to possess them from the
fourth dimension, Therefore, they get invited into the secret society
networks and put through various rituals, which, of course, they have
to join to make any real progress. They don't understand what they're
doing. Most of them don't understand that words and ritual create energy
fields. And, energy fields, if you don't know what you're doing, can
be very dangerous things, in terms of the ways you can be manipulated.
Then, in these rituals, the orchestrators are plugging these overwhelmingly
unknowing people into this lower fourth-dimensional consciousness. They
are being possessed by them.
If you look at the history of Hitler, it's fascinating. This person
used to sit in the street, trying to sell paintings. He certainly had
a charisma-bypass, it would seem. He was put through a series of rituals,
by a man called Eckart, and Hitler emerged at the other end as this
strutting, crazed, contorted faced man, who was generating a magnetic
energy that captivated a nation, thankfully, for only a very few years.
What Eckart actually wrote to friends of his, and I quote this in the
book, is that his friends shouldn't worry about Eckart, because he had
effected German history more than anyone else. He said, "I have connected
Hitler with THEM." Hitler was plugged into the lower fourth dimension
and was being a puppet for these lower astral reptilian beings.
And the Truth will set you Free
I came across all this stuff was typical of the synchronicity of my
life. In a book, called "And the Truth Shall Set You Free," I wrote
about the structure of control in the world, today. Then, I thought
that it doesn't take a genius to see that this structure wasn't put
together in five minutes or five years, so, when did it start? I started
going back, to find the origin of this manipulation. I got completely
back to the time of the Crusades, the 1100s and 1200s, the Knights Templar
and all those people, and I went on back to thousands of years B.C.,
in Babylon, which seems to have been a major center for these particular
From that center, they started infiltrating and taking over some of
the other societies, not in the least Egypt, that disintegrated and
deteriorated, as a result. Then, they moved their epicenter to Rome
and became the Roman Empire. Then, they moved further into London and
became the British Empire, and this is where it has all come from. I
got far enough back and started hitching endless stories around the
world about these hybrids - not always mentioning reptilian, but mentioning
this interbreeding between the gods and humanity, creating these hybrid
Then, about a year ago, I started to have the most extraordinary experiences
in my travels. In a period of 15 days in May 1998, I met 12 different
people, from totally different walks of life (business people involved
in Swiss banking on through to television presenters and others), who
told me this same story - that they had seen people, who were overwhelmingly
in positions of power, but not always, who turned into reptilian forms
before their eyes, then, go back again. A policeman was one who had
this story to tell
From "The Biggest Secret"
Kenneth Burke: Do you think it was done on purpose or because the frequency
of the planet took away their covers momentarily?
David Icke: It seems to me, that it is two things. First, I think there
are certain frequency energy fields, in which they find it much harder
to hold human form. But, the main thing is that they are lower fourth
dimensional beings, in terms of their focus, and that's not very far
from this dimension. I think peoples' consciousnesses flick onto that
energy for a brief time. The people then cease to see those reptilian
beings in their three-dimensional form, and they see them in their fourth-dimensional
form. They cease to be their three-dimensional covers and are seen as
their fourth-dimensional reptilian beings. These people see beyond the
space suit, if you like. Now, this has gone on and on. Talk about somebody
trying to tell me something. This is now extremely well into three figures
of people, all over the world, who have told me the same story. I was
in Vancouver, where six separate people told me the same stories, including
one business woman - a grounded businesswoman, who has a large business
of her own. She actually had two different relationships with guys,
particularly one, who, during sex, actually manifested as a reptile.
Now, how is that for a shock? The stories go on. Then, I remembered
that I'd read a book by Kathy O'Brien, "Trance Formation of America",
several years ago.
Kenneth Burke: Yes. We interviewed her.
David Icke: I remember thinking, "Hold on a minute, I'm sure she mentioned
the reptiles in that book." So, I went and got it, because I know there
is a case to answer. Too many people in Britain, Australia, and America,
from so many different walks of life, have told me the same thing. Some
of them are not into metaphysics at all and are thoroughly shocked.
Anyway, I looked down the references and found reptiles. Kathy talks
about the fact that George Bush had told her that they were an extraterrestrial
race, who had taken over the planet and no one realizes it, and that
they came from deep far-off space. She said that he just changed in
front of her face into a reptile. One guy actually, very briefly, rang
my office in America, last January, and said, "I've heard you have a
new book coming out. What's it about." I said, "It's a bit - it will
take you aback. I can't really explain it. You'd have to read it from
start to finish, otherwise, it would just sound crazy."
So, we talked about things. He said, "I can't talk about this to many
people, but can you explain to me why I keep seeing people, like Bush,
Kissinger, and Gorbachev turn into reptiles when I see them on television?"
I thought, "Shoot. I know that." Anyway, Kathy O'Brien talks about seeing
a number of politicians in America turning into reptiles.
She rationalized it as part of the MKULTRA mind control program. The
other story that she told was being with Miguel de la Madrid, the President
of Mexico during the 80s, and she said that he told her the story of
what he called the Iguana Race. Of course, this book was published long
before I started coming across this information. She said that he said
to her that the Iguana Race, a reptilian extraterrestrial race, had
interbred with the ancient Mexican people - the Mayans and others -
because they needed to create bloodlines, bodies that they could work
through, and that these particular bloodlines - the Iguana/human bloodlines,
could shapeshift and take either human or reptilian form. She also said
that he changed into a reptile in front of her. So, I started to look
back, then, thinking that, time is so short a period that we call known
human history, if this is going on now, it must be a very good chance
that it was going on before. So, I started scanning the ancient accounts
of the reptilian race and the serpent race, and, my goodness me - you
find the Nagas - some of the gods of the Indus Valley, which became
the Hindu culture - were said to take either human or reptilian form
You will find other references, around the world to this. By this time,
I'd established that the House of Windsor, the Royal Family of Britain,
which is actually a German line and goes back to the "black nobility"
in northern Italy of Venice, which can be followed back to the Middle
East and the Near East, was one of these bloodlines - not that they
were reptilian, but they were one of the elite bloodlines. So, a couple
of members of the House of Lords in Britain asked to talk with them,
because they knew about this conspiracy and wanted to know more about
what I knew. A woman at the meeting would say things about Diana, Princess
of Wales, every now and then. I found her very interesting. Afterwards,
I said, "We've got to talk." She said, "We have." I asked her, "How
do you know this about Diana?" She said, "Well, my closest friend was
Diana's closest confidante on esoteric matters for nine years. She was
her healer." Now, this had even come out in the press, at some point.
This lady was on the front page of the tabloid press as the person,
who was giving spiritual healing to Diana. This particular woman had
never spoken to anyone before, but, for some reason, she spoke to me.
I quote her, at length, in the book.
She told me about the tremendous mistreatment of Diana by the Windsors.
I hadn't gone to see this lady about reptiles. I went to see her about
Diana and the Windsors. As the conversation unfolded, she said, "You
know what Diana's nickname for the Windsors was?" I said, "No, go on."
She said, "The lizards and the reptiles." She said, "Diana used to say
to me, in all seriousness, 'They're not human.'" She said, "You know,
this might be hard to believe, but the Windsors are a reptilian bloodline.
They're reptilian, and it's reptilians who are actually running the
I also came across the son of a New York lawyer. That law firm, during
the early part of the century, represented people, like the Rothschilds,
the Rockefellers, and the Morgans. I talked to him in Phoenix, just
a few weeks ago. He was going into the law firm, and he said to me that
he got out, because he realized that this global manipulation was going
on, this agenda existed, and that the bloodlines that were behind it
Another interesting thing that happened, when I was in South Africa,
at this time last year, I met a Zulu shaman, who asked to meet me. I
was only two days off the plane, and I had never been to South Africa.
I got this invitation to meet this shaman, whom I met and spent five
hours talking to him. At one point in the conversation, he said to me,
"You know, your Lady Diana (who was dead, by that time, of course),
I had a call from her one day." I thought, "Oh, yeah? What's going on?"
He said, "She called me in March 1997, before she died in August." She
said to me that she was calling from a supermarket phone in England.
He said, "First, I didn't believe that it was Diana, because why would
she call me. Secondly, I certainly didn't believe it when she said she
was calling from a supermarket phone." Now, when I told this story to
Diana's confidante, Christine Fitzgerald, the healer, she said, "Well,
that makes perfect sense, because Diana knew that Kensington Palace
phones are bugged, and that all the official places she phoned from
were bugged. So, she used to go into a supermarket or a department store
in Kensington, just down the road, and used a public phone, when she
wanted a clean line." Now, the shaman wouldn't tell me exactly what
she said, but he did say, "She rang me."
I now realize that they had a mutual contact, which is why she'd heard
about him. Now, this Zulu shaman has talked widely about extraterrestrials
and his own extraterrestrial experiences. He said that Diana rang him
and said, "I need your advice. I've got something to reveal about the
Windsors that will shake the world, and don't know how to reveal it."
He wouldn't tell me what it was. The fear on his face was obvious as
I was pressing him to tell me, and it showed me that he was terrifically
afraid. He just went into shutdown mode.
Kenneth Burke: From your information, which is obviously vastly researched,
what are the plans for these reptiles for the Earth in the next two
or three years?
David Icke: What we call the New World Order is the reptilian fourth
dimensional agenda. They want to create chaos in the world, including
massive wars. So, this structure of world government, world central
bank, world currency, electronic banking and no cash at all, a microchip
population and a world army, which is NATO...as I've been writing about
for years in my books...the global police force. They are planning to
create tremendous chaos across the millennium years,using a global version
of the most powerful mind control techniques, which I call problem-reaction-solution;
you create the problem, you get the "something must be done" reaction
from the public, and then you offer the solution that you wanted enacted
in the first place.
If you want to introduce global solutions, you need global problems,
and I foresee this coming, big time. The problem apparently is that
the planet's frequency on the planet is getting faster and faster and
those who knowingly shapeshift are finding it harder and harder to hold
their human form. I'm told that there is an obsession by these reptile
beings and an almost panic to get their institutions of control in place,
especially the microchip population. They know that in a few years that
the frequency of the planet will have reached a speed in which it will
no longer be possible for them to hold their human form no matter what
they do, and we'll finally see that it is the reptiles who have been
running our planet.
Kenneth Burke: They won't be able to hide anymore.
David Icke: Right. By this time, the insiders tell me, the reptiles
want the microchip population in place, they want the world army, NATO,
in place and they want to have as much physical control as possible
of our three dimensional world so that we humans, in the reptiles opinion,
can do nothing about their control of our planet.
Mysteries, UFOs, etc.
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